KEVIN THORN – CRYSTAL BALLING WITH LEARNNOVATORS
ABOUT KEVIN THORN:
Kevin Thorn is an award-winning e-learning designer & developer, consultant, and owner of NuggetHead Studioz, LLC., a boutique custom design and development studio specializing in online learning experiences.
After retiring from the U.S. Army, Kevin pursued a career in Information Technology and Training & Development for the next 15 years. He left the corporate workforce to start NuggetHead Studioz in 2012 where he works with clients in various industries solving learning problems in a wide range of exciting creative experiences.
Based in the North Mississippi Delta, Kevin harnesses a bench of creative practitioners in instructional design, e-learning development, illustration, graphic design, animation, and serious comics to develop innovative solutions. Kevin is a well-known industry speaker and trainer on e-learning development, design workflows, and is a certified facilitator in LEGO® Serious Play® methodologies.
Kevin holds a BS in Information Technology Management from Christian Brothers University, an MS in Instructional Design and Technology from the University of Memphis where he now teaches and is currently enrolled in the Instructional and Curriculum Leadership EdD doctoral program. He can be found on Twitter as @LearnNuggets, on LinkedIn, or around learning and development communities teaching and facilitating workshops where he writes articles, reviews and shares tutorials.
ABOUT THIS INTERVIEW SERIES:
Crystal Balling with Learnnovators is a thought-provoking interview series that attempts to gaze into the future of e-learning. It comprises stimulating discussions with industry experts and product evangelists on emerging trends in the learning landscape.
Join us on this exciting journey as we engage with thought leaders and learning innovators to see what the future of our industry looks like.
THE INTERVIEW:
1. LEARNNOVATORS: You carry immense experience working with clients in various industries solving problems in a wide-range of creative projects. For many years now, you have been inspiring the community with your insights on e-learning technologies, platforms, tools and tips. You believe in the approach “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” for the design and development of e-learning. According to you, “an e-learning solution needs to be analyzed and thought through with the learners and their environment first”. What does your experience spanning many years indicate about the changing nature of e-learning for workplace training?
KEVIN THORN: Not much has changed yet everything has changed! What hasn’t changed is how we analyze a learning problem and study why it is a problem in the first place, and whether training is the correct solution. Sometimes it may appear to be a learning problem at the surface but turns out to be a management or procedural problem that requires a different approach to solving that problem. Or sometimes it may appear to be a large, complex problem that, after careful analysis, is just a communication breakdown within a larger process, and a job aid will solve the problem. All that I just described hasn’t changed.
What has changed is how we as designers have learned more about how people learn. Learning designers themselves are learning more about the psychology of learning behaviors that it’s not always about self-paced e-learning or an ILT workshop. The way we learn through technology is ever-changing with mobile technologies, AR, VR, and most recently AI. As learning designers, it’s impossible to learn, know, and keep up with all the advancements and innovations in our industry, but I do think it is important to be aware of the ever-changing landscape.
2. LEARNNOVATORS: You are known for your unique set of design talents in the ‘artistic’ aspects of instructional design. You say, “Design BEFORE you develop. Get your pencil and paper out, and forget about what and how you’re going to develop. It doesn’t matter if you have one authoring tool or an entire suite at your disposal. If you try to start developing before you design your e-learning, you’ll back yourself into a corner and then not know what to do.” Now, we think we know why some call you ‘Instructional Illustrator’! What would be your advice to newbie learning designers who are passionate about artistic design to advance their career to become more skilled in ‘artistic instructional design’?
KEVIN THORN: The first thing I would recommend is to understand the fundamentals of visual design. There are several fundamentals but understanding the importance of the basic four is a good start – proximity, alignment, repetition, and contrast. From there, move your understanding and skills into visual thinking and how to apply it to learning design. E-learning design is more than just good instructional flow and aesthetics. It is also largely about the overall composition and layout of an intuitive design, the interactive user experience, and how we can influence a learner to navigate and interact with the content using visual cues. Finally, practice and practice some more!
3. LEARNNOVATORS: As we understand, you are a great proponent of using instructional comics to ensure better learning retention. It is absolutely inspiring to read about your efforts to use comics as a medium to bring information about neonatal care to nurses in Bihar, India, a city struggling with a large population of new babies. You are of the opinion that this (medium) can be used as a powerful training tool for adults, and argue that designers can and should use these for designing creative and innovative workplace learning solutions. However, for this, you say, the foundation lies in writing the material as a ‘story’ (or re-writing the material as a story-prose script) which you feel is the harder and more time-consuming part. Though there is no doubt about its power in adding value to the learning experiences we design, what kind of challenges are involved in presenting instructions through comics, and what would you recommend to mitigate these?
KEVIN THORN: The types of content that are a good fit for the comic medium is scenario-driven, informational, awareness-related, and procedural. In fact, I’d argue any content can be converted to the comic medium!
In my experience, the first challenge is deciding if the comic medium is the best fit for the content. Yes, I believe any content can be converted into an instructional comic, but as you mentioned in your first question, “just because you can doesn’t mean you should.”
The second challenge is writing a script. A script in this context does not always mean speech bubbles or dialogue between characters. The script could be very similar to a narration script we often use in e-learning. However, a script in an instructional comic needs that story element as well as tone that brings out the personality of the character or characters.
You can still be a world-class instructional designer but writing narrative storytelling scripts is different than writing instructional narration. This is where good storytelling skills are useful. The visuals (artwork) in a comic are created from that story and the script and art must be in sync. So, it all starts with the story.
Another challenge is finding the right artwork. Let go of the notion that the instructional designer is also wearing an artist’s hat regardless of whether they have the skills or not. There are a lot of great pre-made illustrations and character packs from stock resources, and these are great places to start. Those pre-made illustrations may not have all the expressions, poses, and backgrounds necessary to compliment the story, though. Finding a good artist is plentiful but it’s important the artist also understands visual and sequential narratives, foreshadowing, and pacing to keep the content flowing but not overshadow the content.
Instructional comics is not about the artwork. The most common rejection/deflection of using the comic medium for e-learning is “I can’t draw.” This is rubbish. I’m not a video producer, but I use video in many of my projects. Video is an output medium just like comics. Choose the appropriate medium for the content, then source the talent to produce that output.
4. LEARNNOVATORS: To quote David Kelly from this Learning Technologies 2020 Conference highlights, “Moving on from ‘interactive’ branching scenarios, the future of interactive video will be shaped by powerful metadata that will make video content (e.g. speech via auto-subtitles) truly searchable. The result? Video results available at a learner’s moment of need.” We remain fascinated by some of the dated but highly relevant techniques of using interactive video (such as this one) for learning. In this context, we find that you have been inspiring the community on techniques for creating engaging videos for e-learning projects. What are your thoughts? What are some of the areas where this technique can help? What other technologies do you envisage to power up such interactive videos to make them more powerful and natural? Given the opportunity and resources, how would you take this to the next level?
KEVIN THORN: Interactive video is similar to the comic medium. It’s an output medium of choice that best fits the content. Areas where I’ve used (and am using) interactive video is for conversational training such as a retail associate learning how to respond to customer requests. Scenario-driven content is a perfect fit for interactive video as well. What David Kelly mentioned is truly the next level where learners can search a video for the content they need in that moment. Searchable voice technology takes this to yet another level. Another area I still see a lot of potential is VR/AR, or MR, for interactive learning experiences. This is a couple of years old, but this VR training experience to help inmates prepare for life as a civilian reflects the type of effective training where VR is useful. However, most organizations do not have the funds or resources to develop full VR experiences, but the same instructional content can be developed with interactive video. This interactive video example is what can be done on a minimal budget.
5. LEARNNOVATORS: As we understand, you are a certified facilitator in LEGO Serious Play Methodology, and remain excited to read about Step Away – a mashup of game design, visual thinking, design thinking, and LEGO Serious Play to help dive deeper into your creative self – that you founded along with Karl Kapp and Deborah Thomas. It was indeed interesting to know about the first event that you conducted in 2019. What got you interested in the LEGO Serious Play method? What is the significance and relevance of this method in workplace learning? How do you think it helps in enhancing business performance? What are your plans to take this idea forward?
KEVIN THORN: I’ve been a lifelong fan of LEGO. When my son was young, I bought him the first Mindstorms Robotics LEGO, and it really opened my eyes that LEGO is more than just a toy. I started making up challenges, and my son and his friends would have to solve the problem by designing and developing a LEGO robot to complete the challenge. When I learned of LEGO Serious Play (LSP), it was the same thing minus the technology of programming a robot. LSP is a thinking, communication, and problem-solving set of application techniques where the solution is not obvious. There are countless opportunities to use LSP methodologies in workplace learning. I’ve had a lot of success in the areas of strategy planning and communication, and especially in areas where a lot of people are involved in a complex system such as manufacturing.
LSP is not a canned workshop. Each use of LSP is custom designed specific to an organization’s needs so yes, this enhances business performance because the objective and goals of the activities were to do just that.
Going forward, don’t change what is not broken, right? Seriously, I’m using some of the application techniques to help people see their learning problem. It is one thing to identify a learning problem, but to “see” it in a 3D analog form you can get more perspective. LSP allows you to build the problem, see opportunities and weaknesses, and add to or take away from that model until a solution is inspired. I used this approach in our recent Virtual Step Away event to help participants identify what learning problem they were going to solve by designing a card game. LSP is very effective in that it forces you to think with your hands.
6. LEARNNOVATORS: “Learning experiences need to be challenging. Real, long-term learning requires ‘desirable’ (accomplishable) and ‘difficult’ learning with real effort, for longer retention. It is all in the struggle, failure and overcoming of difficulty that real effortful learning takes place. This is why so much online learning fails.” We remain inspired by this thoughtful shout-out from Donald Clark for all learning designers out there! What are your thoughts? Do you agree that we are making learning ‘too easy’ for people? If yes, isn’t it high time to re-look at the definition of ‘engagement’ in our online learning programs?
KEVIN THORN: The short answer is, yes, we often design learning too easy. Let’s unpack that. Very few organizations have the time, budget, knowledge, skills, and ability to design and produce truly effective, engaging learning experiences with measurable and meaningful impact. Yet, every (okay, maybe not all) instructional designer stays awake at night and motivated to start the next day constantly studying how to achieve that elusive goal.
“Engagement” is a buzzword and tied to development, not design. When a learner clicks on a next button in e-learning, they are technically engaging with it. I don’t know that I would spend any time trying to re-look at redefining “engagement” because it is already embedded in the industry culture. Instead, focus on your work, your knowledge, your skills, and design the best instruction you can. If you design world-class instruction, by default it will be engaging.
7. LEARNNOVATORS: As we understand, aside from being the latest bandwagon in town, Artificial Intelligence (AI) has real power, when used well, to transform learning – to make learning truly ‘personalized’. Here, we are reminded of this interesting story by Ashok Goel, a Professor of Computer Science and Cognitive Science in the School of Interactive Computing at Georgia Institute of Technology: He created Jill Watson, an AI teaching assistant, whom he used for one of his grad-level classes, without any of his students noticing. We believe that we should learn to see how best we can leverage the power of such a technology to make learning a much more personalized experience. What do you think learning leaders should keep in mind while experimenting with this evolving technology to make ‘artificial teachers’ or ‘virtual teaching assistants’? Will AI take over teachers or trainers and make them jobless? If you agree, how do you think teachers and trainers should upskill themselves to avoid getting ‘outdated’?
KEVIN THORN: No, I do not think AI will take over teachers’ or trainers’ jobs in the near future. Eventually? Possibly. In the last few years we have seen a lot of great innovative AI technologies emerge. And we’ve seen a lot of use in how we interact on a daily basis. Voice technology is an area of interest of mine. We see it in use now with Alexa, Siri, Cortana, Google Assistant and others. Today, when we need some information, we ask one of our AI friends. This is one level of augmenting learning, not replacing it. At the same time, during all this innovation, we’re also seeing that AI is a long way from truly replacing the logic of a human brain.
8. LEARNNOVATORS: We remain fascinated by developments such as MakeItTalk – an Artificial Intelligence (AI) model that can help create expressive talking-head videos from a single facial image with audio as the only input (more details in this paper here). How do you think such emerging technologies can help make development of not just animated comics, but our e-learning solutions, more effortless and efficient? If AI starts designing and creating e-learning solutions soon, what is left to do for the instructional designer? What would be your message for them to remain relevant?
KEVIN THORN: Simple. Be involved in designing the AI experiences. I just learned of Google’s AutoDraw where you draw on screen and AI interprets each line as you do so and displays a toolbar of images. For example, sketch two circles side by side and a line connecting them, AutoDraw may interpret that as a pair of eyeglasses. As I mentioned earlier, AI will continue to evolve and innovate the way we use technology, but I don’t believe it will completely replace the instructional designer’s role. Rather, the role will also continue to evolve and be redefined. If you intend on being in this industry for a few more decades, stay relevant and be connected to these technological advancements.
9. LEARNNOVATORS: According to Lori Niles-Hofmann: “…the skills of an ID need to evolve. They can no longer be course developers focused on templated click-next-to-continue e-learning modules.” We too believe that there’s a lot that we can, and need to, borrow from other spheres of life to make the learning experiences that we design truly memorable for people. From your own experiences, what do you think are the ‘revised skillsets’ or the ‘must have qualities’ of a new age workplace learning designer? What have been your challenges (if any) with respect to this change?
KEVIN THORN: Agreed that the role of an ID is being continually reinvented. In fact, we’re seeing many IDs using the LXD (Learning Experience Designer) moniker. IDs who want to excel and stay relevant should consider reinventing, or at least reevaluating themselves every year or so. We see a lot of discussion, and debates, about ‘revised skillsets’ or ‘must have qualities’ for the ID of the future. IDs are no longer just designers. They are also project managers, customer relationship managers, developers, evaluators, and more depending on their organization’s environment. It’s one thing to be a good communicator and have a portfolio but having good business acumen and really understanding the business’ strategic future is where an ID should invest time in. Having a seat at the decision table as a trusted consultant can help steer the organization’s training strategy, or at least understand what is being planned.
For me, the challenges I face are the time to learn new skills. xAPI has become the valid standard for tracking all types of learning external to the LMS, yet I still haven’t developed a project, even a portfolio piece, using xAPI. However, I know I need to at least understand it at a deeper level where I can hire others to develop and have intelligent and confident conversations with customers. That’s just one example but the biggest “challenge” I face is balancing time between client projects and self-development.
10. LEARNNOVATORS: Donald Clark says, “If we want online learning to improve, it must get smarter. For 30 years we’ve been largely delivering rather flat and linear media… Smarter online learning needs smart software and everyone agrees that AI is smart.” We know that you are an expert in using some of the most popular authoring tools in the market today, and have been so engrossed with encouraging the learning community to leverage the power of the same to its fullest extent. You spend considerable time discussing tips and hacks to help developers get better. In this context, what we would like to know is: Would you agree if we say that it is these kind of rapid e-learning authoring tools that have contributed to the poor quality of e-learning? If you agree, what are some of the functionalities that these authoring tools lack presently and should start adopting to support modern workplace learning? What will future authoring platforms look like?
KEVIN THORN: First, I have never liked the term, “rapid e-learning authoring tools” because rapid authoring is not a replacement for rapid design. The design process doesn’t change just because you are using a tool to help speed up the project once the development phase begins. I think that term was over-marketed which helped the sales of those tools. Over time, the results of poor-quality e-learning was blamed on the tools and not the marketing departments. In the end, IDs were given a bad rap because they found a tool to help them in a role that was increasingly asking them to take on more responsibilities to meet an increase in demand.
All tools have their capabilities and limitations. It’s up to the license holder to understand and know what those are so they can properly design before development. It’s also up to the ID to have multiple tools in their toolbox so they’re not in a position of “shoving a square peg in a round hole” and limiting the learning solution because the only tool they have can only do so much.
However, tool vendors need to listen to IDs on what they need and keep an ear to the industry. For a long time, IDs have been frustrated with the lack of accessibility support in the tools they use, but in the last couple of years, the tool vendors are investing heavily in adding that support.
Additionally, it took almost a decade after the first smartphones and tablets began to appear that IDs would not “design for mobile first”, rather develop in one format because the tools didn’t support responsive design, and IDs didn’t really understand the differences. There are a lot of tools now that are either fully responsive or support responsive behaviors.
I’m not in the business of predicting the future, but I do think it is not feasible that one vendor will develop a one-all-be-all tool. This goes back to the previous question about skillsets where IDs, depending on their environment, should have tools for AI, AR/VR, chatbots, full responsiveness, video editing, animation, etc.
11. LEARNNOVATORS: To quote Michael Allen from our interview with him: “I suppose it will surprise readers, but I do expect instructional design to be automated eventually.” It is exciting to hear about the powerful Machine Learning models such as GPT-3 that are all poised to power up our learning products soon. Here is an article written by GPT-3 for The Guardian from simple instructions fed to it! How exciting is the future? How do you think will Artificial Intelligence (AI) help transform the way we analyze, design, develop, deliver, and evaluate our workplace learning solutions? What, according to you, is the future?
KEVIN THORN: I agree with Michael on this. Machine Learning will only enhance the future of the IDs’ role. See question 9 again that a career ID must understand where AI fits in this industry, where it’s being effectively used, the resources to implement. We will and are seeing an exciting level of new opportunities. A simple example is a smart scenario with intelligent tutoring, where depending on the learner input, the scenario responds accordingly instead of providing a scripted response. Coupled with a VR experience, some examples of learning designs can be for conflict resolution, sales training, etc. The medical industry is already using AI and VR together to train diagnosis, treatment plans, and surgeries.
I’d like to remind readers that technology will always be way ahead of us. Analyze the learning problem first, then design a solution. Then, and only then, choose the right technology to develop and implement that solution.
12. LEARNNOVATORS: We have always been guided by these words of wisdom by the late Jay Cross: “Dialogue is the most powerful learning technology on earth.” Traditional e-learning has been about command and control, thanks to its tight design. However, we believe that new technologies such as chatbots can help make a course break free of its closed/tight navigation design. To quote Donald Clark, “Online learning needs to be unmuted.” Our experience in this regard also has shown that chatbots can help us ‘pull’ what we need when we need it from a vast repository of information in the most natural way – by chatting. This can be helpful for modern learners who may prefer to learn on their own (by creating their own learning paths). A few questions here: What role do you foresee for chatbots to break the silos of our traditional course designs? What, according to you, is the potential for conversational (dialog-based) learning in bringing learning to where employees really are (into their flow of work)? What would be your message to learning designers for ‘designing training to be delivered by bots’?
KEVIN THORN: Chatbots certainly have a role and a place in course designs. We also know the design of the training solution is dictated by the learning problem. DISHA is a fascinating example of effectively using chatbots in a meaningful way. Again, not every solution will require chatbots, so I’m not sure chatbots alone will be the savior to break the silos of traditional course designs.
The potential for a conversational tone starts with good script writing. IDs write narration-style scripts because there is typically only one speaker – a narrator. Dialogue is a conversation between or with two or more voices and writing good dialogue script is a different skill level. If that script is recorded with voice actors, additional attention should be considered since both actors record at the same time – true dialogue crosses over voices.
Instructional interactive comics require dialogue scripting. I’m working on a project on nursing simulation training with a single goal to reduce infant mortality rates in the Bihar region of northern India. The script and dialogue are directly relevant to the audience and with the comic medium, the visuals and characters are relatable and representative.
My message to learning designers about training delivered by bots is to first understand the capabilities and limitations of bots, and the tools to implement. Chatbots are effective “in” a course design, but training delivered “by” bots is another level, which I believe would require additional AI and/or intelligent tutoring to push the right content based on learner inputs and conversation with the bot.
13. LEARNNOVATORS: To quote Andrew Jacobs, “Your online offer has to be as simple to use as Google, recommending like Amazon, as comprehensive as Wikipedia.” We agree with Andrew on this thought since we too believe that online learning cannot be any different from these (other) online experiences, and in fact should mimic the great qualities of these online experiences. Would you agree with this view? If yes, what would be your recommendation for learning designers to transform themselves into learning experience designers? If not, how do you justify e-learning interfaces not being in synch with the transformational changes happening in the other applications we use in our daily lives?
KEVIN THORN: Yes, I agree with this view as well. My recommendation would be to invest in UX design skills specifically around good UI design and perceivable affordances. For example, I’m writing these responses in Microsoft Word where the ‘save’ icon is an image of a vintage floppy disk. Yet, I would argue many users of Word may have never physically seen or used a floppy disk before. The phenomenon on the perceived affordance is that icon is now a global brand that the action or event behind clicking that icon saves the document. More recently, the behavior behind the three horizontal bars, or “hamburger” icon displays a menu. And the behavior behind the three vertical dots communicates “more info.”
By understanding these fundamentals of UI design, IDs can leverage perceived affordances instead of adding text to “click the next button” when the next button is clearly labeled with the word “next.”
As discussed earlier, some authoring tools are in sync with these modern UI developments in intuitive experiences, and some are not yet up to speed. The good news is that each authoring tool allows the ability to disengage the pre-packaged UI where designers can custom design a UI unique to their course.
14. LEARNNOVATORS: You are of the belief that “Innovation is not just about chasing technology. You don’t have to use technology to be innovative, you can be innovative in the way you present the material.” We too at Learnnovators carry this thought of ‘bringing innovation to learning’ as our mantra, and ensure to retain this as one of the most significant qualities of our solutions. We also feel that this is the right time for organizations to embrace innovation more than ever. What would you recommend for organizations to build an innovation culture that can help them not just survive, but thrive, in this Imagination Era? What would be the role of L&D in this humongous task of building an innovation culture?
KEVIN THORN: Innovation is a tricking word and has arguably transformed into a buzzword that’s lost its true meaning. Innovation as it applies to the training industry means creating something or implementing something that is different, creative, and unusual that improves efficiency and gives an organization or an individual an advantage to be more effective.
Karl Kapp, my co-founder at Step Away! recently wrote about, “What Does Innovation Really Mean?” on our blog. Step Away! is a creative design experience that helps people who attend learn about innovation at its core, finding inspiration, creativity, and teaching them the creative process by implementing their ideas.
In a nutshell, being creative is like having an idea. Creativity is implementing that idea. Innovation is a combination of ideas and experiences to design or create something new.
I think the role of L&D is constantly building an innovation culture by early adopters experimenting with new technologies we’ve discussed in this article.
15. LEARNNOVATORS: We remain fascinated by this thought by the late Joe H. Harless: “Inside every fat course, there’s a thin job aid crying to get out.”… This phrase resonates absolutely well with us. We too realize that, Training is NOT the answer, always… sending employees ‘away from work’ for taking a course is indeed not the right solution, but bringing learning / support ‘into the flow-of-work’ is. In fact, there have been many instances where effective job-aids and other ‘non-course alternatives’ helped us replace courses entirely. In this context, we believe it is high time that we think beyond e-learning to performance support solutions that really help people in their moment of need. What are your thoughts? What are some of the interesting ‘non-course alternatives’ that you’ve designed in place of an original requirement for a ‘course’?
KEVIN THORN: Agreed. So often, the request is what is wanted instead of what is needed. Yet, due to high speed of business needs, most requesters are not interested in or care about conducting a thorough and proper analysis of the training need. It is often a Catch 22 scenario for instructional designers to juggle designing and developing good instruction while satisfying the demand. Unfortunately, the demand usually wins.
I would encourage designers to be ever observant and aware of ‘non-course alternatives’ that can be quickly accessed and shared with new requests to at least slow the process down long enough to explore and possibly conduct additional analysis.
As you may know, I am also an illustrator and graphic recorder (sketchnoter). I recently graphically recorded an illustration explaining the new recycling efforts that were passed into law in the state of Washington. The request was to inform and educate the population on the new policies in a quick and efficient manner. The initial request was an explainer video with follow up game-like interactions. The challenge was how to reach everyone in the state effectively and timely. I recommended a graphic illustration that can be delivered electronically in state emails, printed as posters, added to social media posts, or included in formal presentations. The result was a low-fidelity, scalable, and portable solution with minimal cost and high effective rate.
16. LEARNNOVATORS: There are many out there who feel SCORM is already dead, and others who feel that if it is not already (dead), it is past its prime. One of the main limitations of this standard is that it doesn’t allow learners to search for information embedded within their e-learning courses at their point of need (while at work, from outside the courses). According to Mark Berthelemy, the reason for this inability – its inflexible design – makes our e-learning courses become ‘black boxes’ that allows us to ‘see inside’ only once we are ‘inside’. We would like to have your thoughts on these points: Is SCORM still relevant in this age where workplace learning happens in the flow of work? If not, is it time that we start looking for more flexible standards? Is xAPI ‘mature enough’ to help us here (with respect to support for a standardized searchable content strategy while also helping ensure interoperability of our workflow learning solutions)?
KEVIN THORN: SCORM is like that gift you received a long time ago but can’t bring yourself to throw away! Is SCORM still relevant? In some respects, yes, it is still a viable standard to manage the basics such as simple compliance reporting or other instances where minimal data is required. Additionally, I don’t have any empirical data to support my assumption, but I would guess there is a very large percentage of organizations that have huge investments in their Learning Management Systems that only support the SCORM standard. They may be aware of xAPI or cmi5 but are not ready to shift. I also believe many do not know what the SCORM acronym stands for, let alone what limitations it has. I think we are still in an education phase of what the benefits of xAPI have over SCORM.
I do think xAPI is mature enough now, along with cmi5. There is also a bigger question here to consider, “What are we doing with the current SCORM data we are collecting?” It is important to understand that even though SCORM is limited, implementing xAPI just for the sake of it is not a solution to SCORM unless there is truly a need to track and collect various data points not capable with SCORM.
17. LEARNNOVATORS: Here’s an excerpt from a thought provoking post by Marc Zao Sanders: “Learning & Development is the business function that time forgot. Technology is primitive: AICC and SCORM are 20 years old; even xAPI has been around since 2011; unsupported browsers like IE8 are commonplace in many firms; the UX of many learning systems is a 90s throwback. Content is stale: vast but substantially outdated content libraries sit unused on corporate LMSs, intranets, extranets, SharePoint etc. Research is outdated: Ebbinghaus’s forgetting curve is 100 years old and that’s one of the few learning mantras with some research to back it up. But there’s a chance to catch up with and even overtake modern business. To do that we need to look beyond where workplace technology is now, at where it’s going. Who cares where the puck is now? We need to know where it’s going to be by the time we can get there.” Do you agree with these concerns? If yes, what are your views on addressing them?
KEVIN THORN: Yes, I agree. It only makes good career-minded sense to keep track of the trends in technology and the industry. The challenge is that technology will always be exponentially ahead of us. And it is, for me at least, difficult not to get excited about a new technology or trend that may change the way we operate or even disrupt the industry.
This reminds me back when xAPI first appeared and there was a lot of hype that it was the next big game-changer. Unfortunately, the messaging got foggy about it being the replacement for SCORM where designers and developers were on board, but organizations were not ready to make the leap. xAPI took a back seat for a few years until early adopters developed real-world solutions, new vendors and businesses began supporting it with new tools, and others now with experience are evangelists to help educate on its benefits. xAPI is now here to stay but it took a bumpy road getting here.
AR/VR is similar as it has been around for a long time but never caught on initially, due to the barrier to entry for the average designer and small-to-medium sized businesses. AR/VR entered a surge era in the last few years with advancements in technology, and the lower costs made it more accessible. More accessible means you get more adopters to try new ideas and prove it’s a viable technology for the learning and development industry. We are at a similar path with AI today where only a small population compared to the larger industry is adopting the technology in training initiatives. Soon, it too will be an everyday technology.
But how do we know? How do we know what’s on the surface or what’s on the horizon that we should carve time to investigate, learn, and even adopt? My recommendation is to play with everything! At least you will have a sense of what the landscape looks like.
18. LEARNNOVATORS: There are many out there who have been voicing their concerns on the poor quality of e-learning courses. It is thought-provoking to hear Jane Hart say: “There is a growing frustration with current e-learning. As a result, some employees are now paying their children to take their e-learning for them.” We know that e-learning hasn’t yet started leveraging the incredible power of the internet or the web. For example, we still do not see successful e-learning implementations that are powered by real-time interactive and collaborative learning modalities. When it comes to e-learning, we are locked up inside a dreaded silo, whereas the games that keep kids as well as adults engrossed today are ‘real-time’ and ‘multiplayer’. Not a lot has changed with respect to e-learning in all these years compared to the advancements that have happened in other aspects of our lives. Would you subscribe to the thinking that e-learning is yet to evolve to remain relevant in this digital and social age? If yes, what would be your suggestions for e-learning to step up?
KEVIN THORN: E-learning is not the problem. E-learning is simply the output or the chosen solution. Having a solid understanding of instructional design will be where someone “designs” a real-time active situation, or a multiplayer collaborative learning environment, or an immersive learning experience. As I mentioned before, the knowledge and technology are at our fingertips. Whatever outlandish idea I may think of, it is fair to say there is a technology to support my idea. So, the output is the easy part. The hard part is good design.
Many point the finger at the authoring tool landscape. Chances are the reason employees are paying their children to take their e-learning for them is because it was poorly executed and a boring experience. That’s not e-learning’s fault nor is it the tools we use to develop. The seemingly never-ending challenge is design before developing. ‘Design’ comes before ‘develop’ in the dictionary for a reason!
Lastly, e-learning doesn’t need to step up. Practitioners need to step up.
19. LEARNNOVATORS: To quote Clark Quinn: “We, should, as professionals, have a solid basis for our decisions. Just as you wouldn’t want your doctor not to know biochemistry and biophysics, and your electrician not to understand voltage and current, you similarly should want your instructional designers to understand how learning proceeds.” You have an inspiring story! Since you were not formally educated in instructional design, you have gone through instances where it felt like you are behind the power curve. However, for you, continuous learning has always been the secret of your success. As a person who is ‘100 percent self-taught in instructional design’, but who have been able to successfully merge creativity and technology to impact business for decades now, what would be your advice to newbie learning designers (who are either formally educated or self-taught) to do justice to their profession, and be successful in their journey?
KEVIN THORN: I get asked this question frequently. Yes, I taught myself the instructional design profession because I was thrown in the deep end! Not knowing what I was in for back then, I often reflect on what were my motivations and drivers. First, I was midlife and switching careers where the fear of feeling so far behind my peers was a motivator. Secondly, the imposter syndrome was like a dark shadow always challenging me. Lastly, as a former trainer in the military, a technology geek, and an artist, I saw this enormous opportunity to combine those three interests. I enjoy the satisfaction of someone learning something I was responsible for teaching, using all the technology associated with where the future was going, and the ability to implement my visual creative side.
I hear and see a lot of folks studying hard to learn instructional design, the tools, network, build portfolios, etc. However, someone can be a world-class designer but if they don’t understand business acumen, client relationships, negotiation and conflict resolution, and business finance, it will be a tough journey. And all that is not easy to learn without experience in the trenches of working with various organizations and designing a lot of training solutions. If someone wants to get a good sense of the global industry, they will need experience in various sectors such as healthcare, academic, military, government, international, and non-profit for example. Working in these other sectors will allow a different perspective. Easier said than done. The simplest way to gain that experience is doing pro-bono work. Start small with a local non-profit, city government, etc. These small projects will expose someone to working with various groups and leaders, and each of those projects are a portfolio piece.
Additional advice is to embed yourself into the conversation. Start a blog, a podcast, be a guest on a podcast, offer to do webinars, engage in social media conversations, attend conferences, or join local associations or clubs. Contributing in these ways is a form of giving back. Meaning, it’s a give and take. Steal like an artist at every chance you get! But be sure to give back more than you take.
I must make a comment about higher education here, too. There is an ongoing debate about “accidental instructional designers” vs. formally trained instructional designers. In the end, it’s up to the individual and their overall career goals. In some industries a post-graduate degree is required whereas in some others, it’s a nice-to-have. Personally, I earned an IT undergraduate degree the same year I switched careers from IT to Training. Going back to school at that point was off the table so I took myself back to school and self-taught what I know. I recently went back and earned a Masters in Instructional Design & Technologies in 2018 because there was always this nagging feeling that there were gaps in my knowledge that I felt I needed to learn. I was right. Earning that degree opened new areas of instructional design I had only a fraction of knowledge about. And now, I’m in an EdD program with a goal to earn a doctorate degree within the next few years. I say all that to say never stop learning and growing. It may seem like a slog at times but push through and think of those valleys in your career as a temporary inconvenience.
20. LEARNNOVATORS: Our hearty congratulations to you on being selected as the ‘2019 Guild for Good Impact Award’ by the Learning Guild in addition to the awards that you had bagged continuously in the previous years for your outstanding work. As we understand, this recognition is for your work that ‘exemplifies the spirit of humanity and for making a significant positive impact touching the lives of others to make the world a better place’. This, we believe, is an absolutely deserving recognition for your incredible work in inspiring the learning community! How do you look at this honorable achievement? How do you think these kinds of recognitions will help fuel your vision for the learning community?
KEVIN THORN: I’m reminded of an old saying that I try to keep at the forefront of everything I do. It comes from the 17 Principles of Success by Napoleon Hill. Principle #3 (or habit) is “Going the Extra Mile” which refers to rendering more service and better service than one is expected to render without expectation of reward or acknowledgement.
This applies to an earlier comment about sharing and giving back to the community. It can be your local community or the community in the industry in which you work (serve). This principle/habit also lines up with Servant Leadership which is another success principle.
There are a LOT of awards and honorable recognitions in our industry. My thoughts are not to seek them out for the sake of hanging them on my wall. Stay humble and seek out opportunities to serve and the recognitions will find you.
21. LEARNNOVATORS: It is inspiring to hear you say, “I was actually a trainer in the military, and it wasn’t until I got out and was able to look back on it, that I realized that I actually really liked training, and I liked the sense of satisfaction and the reward of teaching people, and helping people.” It is great to see you on this inspiring journey to help drive change in how people learn at work. Just like you, we too are excited to visualize the future of learning; it looks very bright. We believe that learning will evolve much further than leveraging the power of emerging technologies to some incredible dimensions. What are the trends that will shape the future of online learning in 2021 and beyond? And what is your vision for the learning community?
KEVIN THORN: Honestly, I’ve not been one to put too much weight in trends. Especially in this industry because over the years “trends” often get mistaken with “predictions” and usually always includes some new technology that is “trending” such as AI.
That said, I believe we’re in a paradigm shift in not only how we as instructional designers face solving learning challenges, but also how learners access and attend training. The paradigm shift is, as expected, due in large part from the pandemic. We’ve seen a massive shift in how we work, play, and learn in the past year. That shift was expected to be a temporary inconvenience, but we are now seeing the permanency of new organizational workflows.
A trend I’m seeing is obviously an enormous shift in virtual training. There isn’t anything new about the technology other than a few new tools (such as Zoom) in the market, but we’re seeing massive attendance in online workshops, webinars, presentations, etc. What was thought of as not possible, we’re seeing a lot of creative, collaborative, and interactive online events. I see a possible trend of online conferences to continue even if/when we get back to in-person conferences. The ability and advantage of offering more events to learn is no longer a barrier.
Other trends I’m seeing are the increase in regular (weekly) podcasts and livestreaming video events whether its direct instruction such as a tutorial or talking heads having a conversation. These trends I’d venture to guess fall under the umbrella of microlearning which was a buzzword not long ago, but I believe the pandemic has helped it find its place in the industry for years to come.
LEARNNOVATORS: Before we sign off, we thank you so much for your time today, Kevin. We’ve had an amazing time reading your insights with many valuable takeaways. We’ll take these learnings to foster our commitment to practice and promote continuous learning and innovation at work. We eagerly look forward to collaborating with you on some exciting initiatives in future. Thank you!
